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Post by Atlanta Braves GM(T.J.) on Feb 18, 2011 10:03:42 GMT -6
I'll re-sign Jeter for $15.75 and add a year , so make it a 2 year contract You cannot add years. We just brought that up as a discussion point and if it is approved then it wouldn't be made into a rule until 2012. |
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Post by New York Yankees GM(Tommy) on Feb 18, 2011 10:07:48 GMT -6
yes we can, we have stated time and time again with cards up-bidding being the most recent of this that if your playing by the rules you have to allow it. Show me in the rules where I can't add a year to my own free agent ?
If I cant' add years why would anyone ever bid a RFA more than one season ? You just screw the guy who has the rights every year and hope he eventually runs out of money. The point of RFA rights is to keep guys.
to further this arguement like I think it was Mets who said"your bidding against the owner of the RFA rights" so I have the option at the time. If not then your saying the only way to add years is to bid against your own free agent rights ?
If thats the case then I bid Jeter 2 years 18M , and when it gets to 48 hours I win my own bid, but take the free agent restriction to save the money
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 10:14:22 GMT -6
yes we can, we have stated time and time again with cards up-bidding being the most recent of this that if your playing by the rules you have to allow it. Show me in the rules where I can't add a year to my own free agent ? If I cant' add years why would anyone ever bid a RFA more than one season ? You just screw the guy who has the rights every year and hope he eventually runs out of money. The point of RFA rights is to keep guys. to further this arguement like I think it was Mets who said"your bidding against the owner of the RFA rights" so I have the option at the time. If not then your saying the only way to add years is to bid against your own free agent rights ? If thats the case then I bid Jeter 2 years 18M , and when it gets to 48 hours I win my own bid, but take the free agent restriction to save the money Nice Point and Being Longtime in this League all ready and watching all those Rules Changed to benefit other managers Why not this one? Cause this Actually makes ALLOT of Sense cause Why would U trade for a RFA then? I'll back this up... |
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Post by Atlanta Braves GM(T.J.) on Feb 18, 2011 10:33:55 GMT -6
My main issue with this is the 10-12 past RFA auctions this year but I have a solution. This will get moved to a new thread.
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Post by Atlanta Braves GM(T.J.) on Feb 18, 2011 10:35:14 GMT -6
I think if we make this rule retroactive to the start of free agency this year then there are no issues. There is already a lot of support for it and it preserves the RFA concept. If anyone is opposed then speak your mind.
If this goes through and you have already exercised your RFA rights and want to change your years you will be able to post accordingly.
Players affected:
C.C. Sabathia - 2011 - Rockies
Brian Wilson - 2013 - White Sox
Joe Mauer - 2012 - Marlins
Josh Johnson - 2012 - Angels
Dustin Pedroia - 2013 - Marlins
Francisco Cordero - 2011+ - Angels
Victor Martinez - 2012 - Rangers
Kevin Youkilis - 2013 - Phillies
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Post by New York Yankees GM(Tommy) on Feb 18, 2011 10:38:20 GMT -6
I honestly believed we all knew we could add LOL just makes sense , really didn't think for a second it woulda been an issue
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Post by Atlanta Braves GM(T.J.) on Feb 18, 2011 10:42:38 GMT -6
Well like so many other things it has never been addressed till now. What in the heck have the previous commissioners been doing for the past 3 years???
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Post by New York Yankees GM(Tommy) on Feb 18, 2011 11:08:10 GMT -6
I just want to say with all these unwritten rules and changes and so on Braves needs to be commended on his fast action and resolutions. If I agree with him or not he does take care of it, thanks
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Post by adamdunnsbigstick on Feb 18, 2011 11:36:03 GMT -6
Retroactively doing this is ridiculous. We can't just go about changing rules after the free agency period has started because someone feels like ignoring the previous rules. It changes the way people bid and respond to other bids. It's not as simple a matter as it's being made out to be.
If we're going to do this, then why not allow shortening of contracts? Is that an option as well?
We'll go along with the rules that the commish puts forth, but doing this while free agency is going on seems like a terrible idea. My thought is to table it until next offseason.
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Post by New York Yankees GM(Tommy) on Feb 18, 2011 11:39:15 GMT -6
Phillies there is no rule change, the problem is there was no rule for or against it because logically you'd have to be allowed to add years if not whats the point of even having RFA ? everyone should just bid them for 1 year and then the guy who has the rights is forced to accept 1 year deals , it's kind of an obvious rule that shouldn't have to be added but since there is confusion it was
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Post by adamdunnsbigstick on Feb 18, 2011 11:43:49 GMT -6
The rule shows that you match the contract. There's an example there to show it. It doesn't address it because it is not part of the rules.
Adding it in to the rules is reasonable. Doing so in the middle of free agency is not.
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Post by New York Yankees GM(Tommy) on Feb 18, 2011 11:49:26 GMT -6
what your proposing is adding a rule , every free agent that I have bid on I would have bid for 1 year if that was the rule, but there was no rule stating it, which means every free agent that you won by RFA rights should be 1 year deals , there is literally no point in RFA rights if you will have to bid against yourself. Like I said if I saw with 2 minutes to go that Jeter would go for 1 year and I wanted to add a year, why not just bid against myself add the year then accept my RFA rights against my own bid. That is what owners will have to do, I understand it was never addressed but that's because it's just common sense.
and yes when I got Jeter I matched the contract and then upped it. Matched is not the arguement here neither is the fact I want to add a year to a 36 year old SS at 15 M lol , it's the bigger picture where it's an obvious rule or there really shouldn't be RFA.
you think Angels would have traded for all those rights if he knew we could just bid a year? absolutely not
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Post by adamdunnsbigstick on Feb 18, 2011 12:04:14 GMT -6
No, what YOU are proposing is adding a rule (the right to add years to a contract). Nobody's done it before because it is NOT IN THE RULES.
I have absolutely no problem adding the rule for next season, because it does make great sense. It's part of the point of RFA protection. Doing so now after a number of bids and RFAs have come and gone is not sensible or fair to the other auctions already done.
A second thought on this: not allowing people to add years to RFA contracts allows for more churn in the league, letting more people have an opportunity at players. That is not necessarily a bad thing.
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Post by New York Yankees GM(Tommy) on Feb 18, 2011 12:18:48 GMT -6
then why even have RFA ? there is no rule for or against it, same with the bidding against yourself.
I have no RFA rights left so it doesn't much effect me for this year but you don't think this will hurt guys like Angels who just traded for Wells's rights ?
What's stopping someone from just upping a bid for a year? So in order for Angels to keep this guy for more than that he has to then re-bid against his own rights, the other guy then gets another bid brings it down to a year again, Angels has to re-bid and so on. The entire point of RFA rights is that the owner shouldn't have to bid. If you want to eliminate RFA then that's a discussion we can have, but with no rule in place there is nothing saying you can't add years.
Again I have no real issue in this it hardly effects me except it can severely hurt guys who have RFA left to come, and helps out those who have already won bids. I can tell you for sure I would not have allowed most of these guys go for a bunch of years knowing i am getting almost 130 in free cap space next year. Why wouldn't I have bid every free agent I want down the road for just one year.
This also becomes a major issue with salary dumping at the end of the season to contenders. If you only have a RFA for a year why not dump him late in the season, since they will all be 1 year deals. This is a dynasty league, so turnover is not supposed to be what it;s all about. You have to think of the ripple effect here. We have allowed every issue go by on the notion "there was no rule in place" and here there was no rule stating you can not add years.
If you say it should be like you propose then I'll go back, add a year to Jeter, bid against myself, accept my own RFA rights, lose about .25M and start this trend , but it's dangerous territory and really we need to end RFA rights if that's the case because it doesn't make any sense to have them if guys have to bid anyway.
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Post by adamdunnsbigstick on Feb 18, 2011 12:53:42 GMT -6
The only reason you are continuing this argument is because you want Jeter for a second year. Claiming any other argument about other teams (who, incidentally, do NOT seem to agree with your strategy regarding RFA's, go check bidding patterns) is simply false. If this weren't the case, you'd be okay with letting it go until the next offseason.
The funny thing is you keep offering up similar arguments, and I keep agreeing with them and saying we should implement your changes...just not now, when it's more convenient for you and a pain to everyone else in the league.
Regarding bidding against yourself, I already proposed a solution to that. I hope it'll be considered for next season. I don't see why a similar solution shouldn't be applied to this situation.
RFA appears to have worked, with some alterations, up until now. I see no reason to change it in the middle of free agency.
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