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Post by Brewers GM(Mike) on Aug 15, 2022 8:03:53 GMT -6
Guys it's time to do something for the betterment of league.
Purposely tanking is not good for any of us. I think we are always going to have an inactive team or two so makes it just that more important that the teams that are active are trying or at least not trying to lose.
So let's start the discussion.
Weighted or not?
Who's eligible? Everyone? Bottom 12? Just non-playoff teams??
Off topic but is head to head still the best format for us or would roto create a more honest competition?
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Post by Cardinals GM(Jared) on Aug 15, 2022 9:04:10 GMT -6
I don't think lottery is the ticket.
I think the toilet bowl approach is best. Let them stay competitive to win.
I'd prefer to see bigger divisions as well.
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Post by Brewers GM(Mike) on Aug 15, 2022 9:08:50 GMT -6
We could switch to a snake draft too
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Post by New York Yankees GM(Tommy) on Aug 15, 2022 10:31:54 GMT -6
Tanking is just bad form. 100% agree we need to do something to stop it. But, I will say if the tanking is done all the time, meaning every week and not just selected teams, we can live with it this year.
That being said, I think it should be just non playoff teams and weighted, almost like the NBA style.
I also think roto is the best true championship style. Head to head leaves a lot to luck and chance at the end of the year.
one last proposed rule change. We have talked about it in the past years and years ago but need to revisit or at least re-enforce the rule. When making a nomination you must name a player to be dropped and can not change that player. A very big strategy that has been used in the past is to say you will drop a player, the bidding teams decide to stop bidding so they now can be on the new waiver wire player, and then after the bid is won a team changes it. That should not be allowed
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Post by Brewers GM(Mike) on Aug 15, 2022 12:24:59 GMT -6
No one is changing their cut after the auction is over but yes they have been allowed to change their cut while the auction is active.
In fact I have stuck Cards on this a few times.
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Post by Red Sox GM(Landon) on Aug 15, 2022 14:01:53 GMT -6
I'm for a draft lottery that is weighted for non-playoff teams. Something similar to what the NBA does. Something like bottom three have the same odds for the top picks and the next three teams would have the same odds, etc. There is a difference between starting over and building through the draft, and just tanking it. So, teams with bad records who are just in the starting stages of building their roster should still have some of the best odds for the tops picks. Doing that doesn't completely remove the benefit of tanking, but it would remove one or two teams from giving up on a year trying to get the top pick.
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Post by Rangers GM (Dustin) on Aug 15, 2022 18:04:35 GMT -6
Yeah I’d like to hear what everyone’s definition of tanking is. I’m all for teams rebuilding by trading off their valuable players for prospects or draft picks.
If the tanking we are talking about is not setting your best lineups, then yes we have to fix that. I just don’t know if punishing teams who are trying to rebuild is the best action by making it a lottery.
I’d like to think I did my rebuild the right way.
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Post by Tampa Bay Rays GM(Jordan) on Aug 15, 2022 21:59:26 GMT -6
Im up for any changes in the draft as long as its not this upcoming one. Like i said you think i wanted to suck this Bad just to get the 1st . Sometimes its injuries to key players and underperformers like Baez and Bichette etc . And a month ago or so i saw that i dont have a chance , so might ad well trade some guys to go for the #1 pick as a reward for sucking so bad
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Post by Tampa Bay Rays GM(Jordan) on Aug 15, 2022 22:18:25 GMT -6
Tanking is just bad form. 100% agree we need to do something to stop it. But, I will say if the tanking is done all the time, meaning every week and not just selected teams, we can live with it this year. That being said, I think it should be just non playoff teams and weighted, almost like the NBA style. I also think roto is the best true championship style. Head to head leaves a lot to luck and chance at the end of the year. one last proposed rule change. We have talked about it in the past years and years ago but need to revisit or at least re-enforce the rule. When making a nomination you must name a player to be dropped and can not change that player. A very big strategy that has been used in the past is to say you will drop a player, the bidding teams decide to stop bidding so they now can be on the new waiver wire player, and then after the bid is won a team changes it. That should not be allowed I said way back in 2018 , that we can do both , you can see the Roto standings . All you do is crown 2 Champs one for Roto and one for H2H. Also agree with Yanks about Switching Cuts.
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Post by Brewers GM(Mike) on Aug 16, 2022 8:32:53 GMT -6
There is only one true champ and that is determined by the format we choose to play.
Even if you are trying, everyone is going to have years where they suck, it happens. You can ride it out or blow it up and rebuild, which yes Rangers you did it the right way and now we all are grinding our teeth when we look at your roster. Yes at times there is strategy in sitting guys but what I view as tanking is when you have clear top end players that no one would ever bench other than when you're trying to not be competitive so you can enhance you're draft position. This is human nature to do if your team is not a true contender in a given year so I get it. But I think we should stop blindly awarding teams a guaranteed pick slot, hence the draft lottery idea.
Here I will be direct, while I have been in favor of a draft lottery for some time, yes I have been watching the Rays tank this season and that is what has motivated me to give the lottery a push. Here we have a team that has dealt with injuries and some under performing players which we all go through every year, it's why the season is such a grind in real life. But this is the same team that was co-champ last season and took 2nd in roto-covid season the year before, he has 57 wins this season. For comparison, the 2 teams that everyone bitches about and wants to boot, Phils and M's have 74 and 65 wins respectively. So you tell me what's worse, a poorly constructed team with inactive management or a perennial contender who's having an off year and chooses to not try so they can get the #1 overall? I don't think either should be blindly rewarded with a guaranteed pick slot.
If we decide on a change it would be implemented immediately as that is how we have handled other drastic changes like the RFA process so this would be treated no differently.
A NBA style draft lottery would look something like this. At the moment I don't really want to get into a discussion of the percentages but they could be tweaked some.
#16-14 - 15% #13 - 13& #12 - 12% #11 - 10% #10 - 8% #9 - 6% #8 - 4% #7 - 2%
As far as divisions go if we want to stick to head to head than I believe 2 divisions would be best for scheduling purposed but obviously if we switched to roto there would only be one. There would also not be any playoffs with roto, the top dog would be the champ.
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Post by New York Mets GM(Randy) on Aug 16, 2022 22:08:05 GMT -6
Well, I guess I can throw in my thoughts for whatever they are worth.
Looking at the format first, I like roto, but that will even be harder to keep teams involved as more teams drop out of contention faster in that format than Head-to-Head and it will also limit trades as there will be fewer buyers in the long run. This could also be true as we lower the number of divisions. As we complain about certain teams every year, I do feel that it has rotated divisions on where those inactive teams are at. For a while, my division was pretty weak, but I feel it is very tough now with Cubs, Rangers, and Royals. Over the past 4 years, we have had the champions come from 3 divisions, the best record in the league from 2 divisions (no one in 2020), and the roto winner from 3 divisions. In the last 3 years we have had playoffs (2018, 2019, 2021) we have had 12 different teams make it. With 75% of the teams making the playoffs in 3 years over a 4 year span, that seems to be a pretty solid, balanced league.
What if we kept four divisions, but restructured the teams in each division every so many years (2, 3, 5, whatever). At the end of this year, we will have 5 years of data on Fantrax (one being 2020). We could take cumulative records over that span and divide teams up like the NCAA brackets (1,8,9,16; 2,7,10,15 etc.). This should spread out stronger teams while rewarding longevity of success. Obviously, our 2020 season throws a wrench in some of this, but this might be able to happen.
Looking at the tanking issue, it seems that there is a magic number of games played for teams. If the total number of GP is below 2,000, it seems that those teams are inactive/not competing regularly. Now we need to be careful with what this number is with Rockies, who has fewer games due to not using SPs. Royals tends to also have fewer games, but productive games due to the quality of the players he starts. We could do a lottery style for the 1st round of the draft with the percentages that Brewers created, but we could eliminate teams that do not reach the minimum number of GP if we would want to discourage tanking. For example, any team with less than 2,000 games will pick before the playoff teams, but after the other teams have been ordered through the lottery.
Just some thoughts.
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Post by New York Mets GM(Randy) on Aug 17, 2022 11:29:56 GMT -6
So after posting this last night, I got curious on how the numbers look since 2018. So I did some data gathering. Here are the cumulative records for every team since 2018 up to today's standings with the total Roto score as well. Just some interesting info.
TEAM W L T WIN % ROTO TOTAL Reds 555 366 51 0.603 644.5 Yankees 539 375 58 0.590 663.5 Cardinals 504 408 60 0.553 620 Mets 503 408 61 0.552 596.5 Rays 487 414 71 0.541 600.5 Indians/Brewers 481 426 65 0.530 517 Braves 482 434 56 0.526 474.5 Tigers/Nats 475 432 65 0.524 532.5 Rockies 478 451 43 0.515 632.5 A's/Cubs 449 461 62 0.493 543.5 Rangers 424 485 63 0.466 513 Red Sox 424 485 63 0.466 362.5 Royals 419 491 62 0.460 476.5 Astros/Mariners 369 540 63 0.406 360.5 Orioles 351 553 68 0.388 304.5 Phillies 354 565 53 0.385 318
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Post by New York Mets GM(Randy) on Aug 17, 2022 11:30:56 GMT -6
Sorry it was a cleaner table before I hit post. You can probably copy and paste it into Excel to see the numbers clearer if you're interested.
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Post by New York Mets GM(Randy) on Aug 17, 2022 11:41:13 GMT -6
If we wanted to realign the 4 divisions based on this info, it would look something like this.
Realigned based on Win % (2018, 2019, 2021, 2022) listed left to right: Reds Nationals Rockies Phillies Yankees Braves Cubs Orioles Cardinals Brewers Rangers Mariners Mets Rays Red Sox Royals
Realigned based on Roto Totals (includes 2020) Yankees Nationals Brewers Orioles Reds Cubs Rangers Phillies Rockies Mets Royals Mariners Cardinals Rays Braves Red Sox
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Post by Brewers GM(Mike) on Aug 17, 2022 16:25:25 GMT -6
If we wanted to realign the 4 divisions based on this info, it would look something like this. Realigned based on Win % (2018, 2019, 2021, 2022) listed left to right: Reds Nationals Rockies Phillies Yankees Braves Cubs Orioles Cardinals Brewers Rangers Mariners Mets Rays Red Sox Royals Realigned based on Roto Totals (includes 2020) Yankees Nationals Brewers Orioles Reds Cubs Rangers Phillies Rockies Mets Royals Mariners Cardinals Rays Braves Red Sox These aren't half bad, I wouldn't mind shaking things up. Although it would have been nice if Cards managed to be in a division with Cubs, Rays and Nats lol
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